[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
[escepticos] Sagan & Musicologia
En la lista de la Sociedad Americana de Musicología, andan muy preocupados
últimamente por cuestiones epistemológicas que divertirían mucho a Eloy
Anguiano.
Adjunto seis mensajes en los que sale a colación la personalidad de Carl
Sagan.
¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥
Xoan M. Carreira
<carreira en cyberdude.com>
A Coruña
Pelma en IRC
¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥
--- Begin Message ---
>If I take this to mean a musicologist with sufficient charisma to
>attract the attention of the larger public, I'm sure that if this were
>the case, whoever the person is would have mixed reception in the
>musicological community. For better or worse, the closest we've come to
>this lately is Susan McClary, whose infamous Beethoven 9 scenario has
>filtered into mass media commentary (I've seen or heard references to it
>quite a few times), and as a pejorative example.
>
>As for Carl Sagan, I beg the list's indulgence for the following
>anecdote, which strays off the musicological, but is documented fact:
>
[snip]
>There's a lot of junk science going around that has the ear of entirely
>too many people. Do we want the same thing for musicology?
>
Do you really find Carl Sagan's appetite for luxury transportation was so
offensive as to make his popularized astronomy scientifically suspect? If
so, may I suggest as an alternative role model Robert Bakker*, the maverick
paleontologist of no discernable political sentiments who brought
warm-blooded dinosaurs to the popular consciousness and probably turned
more of us on to paleontology than anyone else in the profession except
perhaps Stephen Jay Gould (oops--but I suppose you consider all of
paleontology to be "junk science" because of its basis in evolutionary
theory)
(*in all fairness, I should note that the consensus among the professional
paleontologists on the Dinosaur Mailing List I subscribe to is that Bakker
is a good popularizer with a deplorable tendency to rush to conclusions.
Also, that hat has to go.)
For that matter, consider political pundits. Many of them, especially the
conservative ones, tend to derive pretty closely from one or another
political philosopher, and can be considered popularizers of political
philosophy. The road from Michael Oakeshott to George F. Will, or from Leo
Strauss to Irving Kristol to Charles Krauthammer, is remarkably direct.
Brian Newhouse
newhouse en newton.crisp.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will echo Michael O'Connor's recollection of Leonard Bernstein. This was
his great gift: an insider, composer, conductor, classical, popular,
ecumenical in his tastes, and capable of clarity without reductive
simplification. Those "Unanswered Question" tapes have more vitality in them
than anything I have seen by a living scholar. Sure, there are myths
perpetuated (the Mahler Ninth-as-death thing for one), and statements that
strike me today as garbage, but his approach combined intelligence, even
intellectualism, and passion, balancing structure and culture. Great stuff!
I saw the lectures when I was in junior high, and I was never the same.
I also second the statements in favor of Peter Schickele. I encountered PDQ
Bach at about the same time, and it made an interesting slapstick (but not
unintelligent) counterstatement to the Bernstein.
But what of our own Mike Beckerman (I am sure he'll be reading this)? His
work on Great Performances has been quite good at times, though I wish he
had a less fluffy format to work with. He combines solid professional
credentials and a Taruskinian critical/historical grasp with a boyish, "Gee
Whiz" enthusiasm which is really quite infectious. (though I thought his
"Ol' Man River" routine was a little lame--hope he won't mind me saying so)
:)
Chris
Christopher A. Williams
Visiting Assistant Professor
Department of Music, FAB 3-83
University of Alberta
Edmonton, AB T6G 2C9
(403) 447-2119
"Du siehst, mein Sohn, zum Raum wird hier die Zeit"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I wrote Michael at greater length off-list, to put the blame for
Sagan's contractual demands (like being transported in the sort of
gas-guzzling, big car that he'd be expected to abhor) on his agent begs
question. Agents serve at their clients' pleasure, and it's a disease
of our age that everybody passes the buck.
As for Leonard Bernstein, he's a good example--I was going to cite him
myself. But he never purported to be a musicologist, which in effect
proves what I first said. I recall a good-natured parody of him on the
Sid Caesar show, Bernard Learnstein. McClary's role in the popular
media is, as I said, not particularly complimentary, nor is it
ostensibly intentional.
I think it was Schoenberg who said something to the effect that art
isn't for all, and if it were it wouldn't be art.
Regards,
Steve Gilbert
--
Steven E. Gilbert <steveng en csufresno.edu>
Department of Music, mail stop #77
California State University, Fresno 93740
phone (209) 278-7593, fax (209) 447-9173
"The best thing about limousine liberalism is always the limousine."
--Marc Carnegie in the American Spectator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mboconnor en erols.com wrote:
>What we need is a
>spokesperson who can pass along the thrill that we feel when we listen
>thoughtfully and study music. I think that the general public sees us a
>bunch of out-of-touch wackos sometimes. I think that the closest person
>to who I have in mind was Leonard Bernstein. His lectures still have a
>relevance today.
Given Bernstein's activities as conductor, composer, pianist, educator, and
musical ambassador (did I leave anything out?), I'd say he's got Carl Sagan
beat.
It was a recording of Bernstein's Norton lectures at Harvard that introduced me
to the excitement of taking music apart and examining the pieces.
Linda B. Fairtile
Astoria, New York
tasha en bway.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:55 AM 9/30/97 -0700, Steven E. Gilbert wrote:
>If I take this to mean a musicologist with sufficient charisma to
>attract the attention of the larger public, I'm sure that if this were
>the case, whoever the person is would have mixed reception in the
>musicological community. For better or worse, the closest we've come to
>this lately is Susan McClary, whose infamous Beethoven 9 scenario has
>filtered into mass media commentary (I've seen or heard references to it
>quite a few times), and as a pejorative example.
Pejorative understood but do you really think that Sagan's public appeal
parallels McClary's fame (or inafamy for some)? My take on Sagan's appeal
was his ability to bring to life an astronomer's fascination of the stars
(and science)
to the general public. He certainly had his detractors but I didn't see
any of them
attempting the same thing in a better way.
> SAGAN HAD IT IN HIS CONTRACT THAT HE WAS TO BE MET AT THE AIRPORT IN A
LINCOLN
>TOWN CAR OR SOMETHING COMPARABLE.
This is unfortunate but we must remember that agents negotiate contracts.
Perhaps Sagan could have
had this changed but I don't understand what this has to do with his public
outreach in astronomy.
If we were all dismissed for isolated hypocrisy, none of us would would be
credible. I have the
upmost respect for those who do, as Steven suggests, put their money where
their mouth is, but I have
to admit that I would take 25 grand for a lecture if I could get it. That
would put a scratch in my student loans:-))
With that in mind I would certainly not begrudge anyone from our community
that could command that kind of
money and excite people about music--not just the western art form, but all
musics. In some respects, Karl Haas
has the right idea even if I do quibble with his method and presentation.
>There's a lot of junk science going around that has the ear of entirely
>too many people.
Here is the real point of contention. What aspect of Sagan's writings and
teaching would you consider junk science? Perhaps you are more
knowledgeable of his legacy than I, but I keep up on the general scientific
news and current thought and never thought that Sagan's ideas were junk.
They may have been simplified and emotionalized at times, yes, but not junk.
>Do we want the same thing for musicology?
No, not in the way that you have presented it. What we need is a
spokesperson who can pass along the thrill that we feel when we listen
thoughtfully and study music. I think that the general public sees us a
bunch of out-of-touch wackos sometimes. I think that the closest person
to who I have in mind was Leonard Bernstein. His lectures still have a
relevance today.
In light of recent list activity, I would like to remind Steven and all
readers that I respect the opinions presented in his post and am merely
presenting some differing opinions in a (hopefully) collegial manner.
Best
MO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I take this to mean a musicologist with sufficient charisma to
attract the attention of the larger public, I'm sure that if this were
the case, whoever the person is would have mixed reception in the
musicological community. For better or worse, the closest we've come to
this lately is Susan McClary, whose infamous Beethoven 9 scenario has
filtered into mass media commentary (I've seen or heard references to it
quite a few times), and as a pejorative example.
As for Carl Sagan, I beg the list's indulgence for the following
anecdote, which strays off the musicological, but is documented fact:
Mr. Sagan was the year's headliner in my university's lecture series in
the fall of 1989. It was so big that the normal university venue
couldn't hold it--it was moved to the downtown convention center
theater. It contained the usual stuff--including how Detroit has the
technology to build a 100mpg car, but a sinister conspiracy has
prevented bringing such an energy-saver to market.
A friend of mine (at the time) was (at the time) administrator of the
lecture series, and had called me a couple of days earlier to ask if I
knew which rental company had the best deal on luxury cars. SAGAN HAD
IT IN HIS CONTRACT THAT HE WAS TO BE MET AT THE AIRPORT IN A LINCOLN
TOWN CAR OR SOMETHING COMPARABLE.
Sagan's credibility for me would have been greatly enhanced if he had
put his money (25 grand for the lecture) where his mouth was and
requested a Geo Metro--or better yet, a bike and some reflective gear.
Instead, he provided added grist for my mill--as see the quote in my
signature.
There's a lot of junk science going around that has the ear of entirely
too many people. Do we want the same thing for musicology?
Regards--Steve Gilbert
--
Steven E. Gilbert <steveng en csufresno.edu>
Department of Music, mail stop #77
California State University, Fresno 93740
phone (209) 278-7593, fax (209) 447-9173
"The best thing about limousine liberalism is always the limousine."
--Marc Carnegie in the American Spectator
--- End Message ---